Discovering a Myocardial Bridge at 65: Jeff's Journey to Heart Health Advocacy

Have you ever ignored a small discomfort only to realize it was something far more serious? Join us on "Heart to Heart with Anna" for an eye-opening conversation with Jeff, the creator and host of a non-profit podcast network, who discovered a congenital heart defect called a myocardial bridge at the age of 65. Jeff recounts his terrifying experience of cycling through strange symptoms and surviving a heart attack, ultimately learning the necessity of paying attention to one's body. Through his personal narrative, Jeff underscores the critical role of support networks and timely medical intervention in overcoming health challenges.

What happens when traditional medical tests don't give you the answers you need? In this episode, we delve into the complexities of diagnosing and treating ventricular tachycardia and myocardial bridging. Jeff shares the life-saving journey that led him to create his podcast, "Imperfect Heart," focusing on raising awareness about these underdiagnosed conditions. From the importance of self-advocacy in medical settings to the need for better education in medical schools, Jeff's mission is to use his "bonus time" to make a positive impact on the lives of others. Listen in to learn about the life-changing potential of surgical intervention and the power of recognizing and acting on heart-related symptoms.

Helpful Links:

Jeff's Imperfect Heart podcast: https://www.myimperfectheart.com/

Stanford's Myocardial Bridge Program: https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-conditions/blood-heart-circulation/myocardial-bridging.html

We're Rolling Studios' Instagram page: https://www.instagram.com/wererollingstudios/

Thanks to our newest HUG Patron, Ayrton Beatty and long-standing Patrons: Laura Redfern, Pam Davis, Michael Liben, Nancy Jensen, Alicia Lynch, Deena Barber, Carlee McGuire, Carter & Faye Mayberry, and Frank Jaworski. We appreciate you!

& so much more
A bi-monthly podcast where we share the stories of our Caregivers, patients and...

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Chapters

• 0:00 H2HwAnna Recording with Jeff Holden
• 11:03 Segment 2
• 20:30 [Ad] & so much more
• 21:18 (Cont.) Segment 2
• 25:01 Segment 3

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

Jeff Holden: The sensation wakes me up in the middle of the night, at five in the morning and I literally dropped to my knees; it was so excruciating 

Anna: welcome to Heart to Heart with Anna. I am so excited because we are recording at Podcast Movement, which is the biggest podcasting conference in North America, maybe in the world. We're recording in 

Anna: We're Rolling Studio today, which is an amazing concept.

Anna: Bring the recording studio to the podcaster. So thank you so much for letting us do this recording, We're Rolling Studio. We're having a blast. You can find them on Instagram. We're Rolling Studio. I am Anna Jaworski and the mother of an adult with a single ventricle heart. That's the reason I'm the host of your program.

Anna: Today's guest is Jeff Holden. Jeff Holden is an avid cyclist and podcast studio owner, a [00:01:00] broadcaster pro turned podcast leader, jeff created and hosts 

Anna: The Nonprofit Podcast Network. Jeff aims to revolutionize the way nonprofit organizations communicate their stories for the betterment of their organizations.

Anna: He was identified with a myocardial bridge in November 2021 at the age of 65. 

Anna: And has since committed to supporting others dealing with symptoms of their bridges through a variety of efforts, including the podcast, Imperfect Heart, which I love the name of that podcast. It's fantastic. Jeff has his own story to tell from symptoms to diagnosis to treatment, giving him insight and empathy, as well as experience in the process of advocating for patients.

Anna: So, welcome to Heart to Heart with Anna today, Jeff. 

Jeff Holden: Well, thank you so much, Anna. I'm really thrilled to be here. 

Anna: I'm just thrilled for us to be here in We're Rolling Studios. I've never been in an outdoor studio like this. I don't know how much the microphones are picking up the [00:02:00] buzz behind us, but there certainly are people all around us and this is just so cool.

Jeff Holden: It'll be clear we're live. 

Anna: It'll be clear. We're live. Absolutely. 

Anna: It is fitting that we are recording this episode at Podcast Movement since that's where I met you last year at Podcast Movement thanks to our mutual friend Boots Knighton, 

Jeff Holden: who was also, a guest, on my podcast as I was on hers, All About Hearts.

Anna: Right. And I've been on her podcast and she's been on my podcast. So, , what a small world, right? 

Anna: Last year was your first time to attend Podcast Movement, if I'm not mistaken. 

Jeff Holden: Actually, this is my fifth. 

Anna: Oh my gosh, is it your fifth? 

Jeff Holden: Yes. 

Anna: Okay, I think this is my eighth. 

Jeff Holden: Good for you. 

Anna: I know, it's amazing.

Anna: Okay, but it was my first time to meet you at Podcast Movement. 

Jeff Holden: That's correct, that's correct. 

Anna: Okay, and I remember that when I met you and sat down and had dinner with you and Boots, I was amazed by your story. So can tell my listeners about how you discovered you had a congenital heart defect at the age of 65?

Jeff Holden: Right. I'm [00:03:00] amazed by my story every day when I wake up. 

Jeff Holden: it's truly a blessing. 

Jeff Holden: I am an avid cyclist and I was riding one day training for an event and I noticed that I had this 

Jeff Holden: unusual sensation, but the event was coming up and I wasn't gonna worry too much about it. And so the event is on a Saturday.

Jeff Holden: We arrive at the event on Friday. It's a grueling Sierra mountain bike ride. I'm in great shape. . I'm really ready for it. And unfortunately, one of the fires breaks out, which is not uncommon in the Sierras and the smoke cancels the ride. And then of course the fire canceled the ride as well.

Jeff Holden: I go home and I figure, well, I got all this training in. I hate to waste all this great effort, so I find another event that's a couple weeks away, and I go out and ride the next day, and I get that sensation again, and it lasts a little bit longer. It's a burning, searing sensation in the center of my chest, like you think, gas.

Jeff Holden: But it... 

Anna: no, 

Anna: I wouldn't, but that's okay. 

Jeff Holden: [00:04:00] For those of us with... 

Anna: I would be scared. 

Jeff Holden: That mainly all find ourselves with is the horrible word called 'denial.' 

Anna: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: And it's like, "Can't be, I'm in great shape. 

Anna: Right. 

Jeff Holden: Everything's fine. I never had any problems. I eat well. I know I'm in good shape."

Jeff Holden: Anyhow, it continues, it starts only when I'm starting the ride. I go out and ride for two or three more hours and everything's fine, come home. 

Jeff Holden: the next couple of days, I go out again and it lasts a little bit longer. I look at the monitor and nothing's unusual. And this progresses. I go and do that ride that I really wanted to do.

Jeff Holden: I was so adamant I wanted to be 100 percent for that ride. And sure enough, we start on the ride and it just eats at me for 10 minutes, but it still was one of the best rides I've ever done with that group.. I get to the hotel and I tell my wife I'm all excited. We sit down and that evening the sensation happens again for the first time ever not on the bike.

Jeff Holden: And I go, "Okay, something's not right here." So I go to the doctor on Monday saying, "I got to get this look at something's not right." And they do an EKG and say, [00:05:00] "That's a little bit off, but not anything we're concerned about. We'll get a chest x ray. We'll make sure all that's good. And we'll set you up with a cardiologist by Friday."

Anna: So they weren't terribly concerned or else they would have had you in the emergency room right away. 

Jeff Holden: I'm in good shape. 

Anna: Right. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, they say, "You look fine." 

Anna: Yeah. Okay. 

Jeff Holden: It's just. something; we'll figure it out. And they were going down the path of something, in the gastrointestinal tract.

Anna: Sure. 

Jeff Holden: Anyhow, that Thursday I had a heart attack. don't get to the cardiologist. 

Anna: You don't get to see him. He gets to see you. And in the hospital. 

Jeff Holden: That's right. 

Anna: Yeah. 

Jeff Holden: The sensation wakes me up in the middle of the night, at five in the morning and I literally dropped to my knees; it was so excruciating.

Jeff Holden: And I told my wife, I said, "It's that sensation. It's the same thing that I've been feeling only it's different." This is every classic symptom of a heart attack. I got the nausea, the sweating, pain, radiating pain down the arm, back. I mean it was every single one and it eased up a little bit. The paramedics, they throw the [00:06:00] EKG on me with, "Yes, yes, Mr. Holden. You're having a heart attack.. Where do you want to go to the hospital?" So we get to the hospital and that's the first awareness that something significant is wrong. 

Anna: Oh my gosh! So you're 65; you're in the best shape you've probably ever been in. You had told me yesterday you have done 32 triathlons 

Jeff Holden: Correct. Yeah, the short ones not the big ones. I did an annual event every year 

Anna: Well, what's the matter with you? 

Jeff Holden: And I'm not a big swimmer. This is a kayaking triathlon. So it's 

Jeff Holden: one ride kayak 

Anna: Well, that's pretty cool. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, 

Anna: Okay. I mean you still have to be in really good shape. There's no way I'm plowing out there and doing that tomorrow. 

Jeff Holden: Wouldn't you think somewhere over 32 years something would have presented? 

Anna: You would have thought; you would have thought. So all of a sudden you're in the ambulance and they're asking you where to go. Did you even know where to go?

Jeff Holden: I had a relationship with a cardiologist interestingly, that we do a podcast, and he was in the studio the other day. 

Anna: Okay. 

Jeff Holden: Just prior, so I knew I wanted to go to that hospital, and I said, "That's my cardiologist." 

Anna: Okay. 

Jeff Holden: And, 

Jeff Holden: they thought they were just gonna go in and do an angiogram, stent me, 

Jeff Holden: and then I'd be fine.[00:07:00] 

Anna: Sure. 

Jeff Holden: Actually, I thought I would be better. He says, "Hey, if this is the case, you're gonna feel great." But I never felt bad. 

Anna: Right. 

Jeff Holden: I never felt bad. 

Anna: Well, except those few minutes. 

Jeff Holden: Correct. But all very recent, so they go in and they do the angiogram; there's nothing there. They come out and say, "There's nothing. You're fine. We don't know what's wrong with you." And that progressed for some time. 

Anna: Right, so eventually you did need surgery. How did you find somebody who was willing to operate on you, and how did they figure out what to do? 

Jeff Holden: Well, I'll back up just a little bit to get you to what it was that they found. 

Jeff Holden: What happens is once this condition 

Jeff Holden: presents, depending on who you are, how old you are, and how severe it is in your heart...

Jeff Holden: It's called a myocardial bridge, and that's where the coronary artery goes 

Jeff Holden: through the heart versus, over the heart, which is typical and it can be deep embedded in the heart. It could be shallow. It can be long or be short, and everybody's different in the way that manifests. [00:08:00] Mine was 

Jeff Holden: a manifestation via endothelial dysfunction and 

Jeff Holden: the vessel itself coronary artery compresses, 

Jeff Holden: spasms 

Anna: But it is still embedded in the tissue?

Jeff Holden: It's still in the tissue. So what happens is, now you have a situation where the artery itself is spasming and closing down, and then the heart's compressing what little bit might have been through, and the longer that happens, the duration is the less blood gets to the heart. Then you have a ischemic incident.

Jeff Holden: So, that's what was happening. So I was going into these episodes of vasospasms that are ischemic attacks. They feel like little heart attacks, and they would last... two, three, four minutes. They didn't know what was wrong. They knew I was having spasms, they assumed, but you cannot see them in any measurement.

Jeff Holden: The only way you can identify them is through a particular test, which is called a provocative test, where they actually go in, a flow meter and an ultrasound and it's in the [00:09:00] artery... 

Anna: it's in the coronary artery... 

Jeff Holden: It's in the coronary artery 

Anna: And see, normally when they're testing, they're not looking at the coronary arteries. The coronary arteries are a lot smaller, so it's harder to get the cameras in there, I would imagine. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, and they'll usually catheterize you through the leg, because it's a bigger artery. And , that's the process. So then aggravate it.

Jeff Holden: They use a chemical that will incite the spasm, if you are symptomatic. A normal person, without the condition, they'll put the chemical in, it's acetylcholine, they'll put that chemical in, and it'll puff up... expand the arteries. Somebody like us with endothelial dysfunction, 'dysfunction' being the key word, when they add the chemical, it constricts.

Jeff Holden: So they know. 

Anna: And then you feel that pain immediately and you know. So... 

Jeff Holden: You're awake during the process. 

Anna: I was just going to say. 

Jeff Holden: Yes. 

Anna: Are you awake? 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, I remember telling you. 

Anna: Wow. 

Jeff Holden: You're loaded up with morphine. I remember telling the doctor at the time doing the testing,

Jeff Holden: I looked up and I said, "That's the sensation." And she goes, "Oh no, we see it." Because they're measuring everything. 

Anna: Oh, okay. 

Jeff Holden: "We see, the constriction." I said, "Yeah, yeah, but I feel it." 

Anna: Oh, yeah. [00:10:00] And that had to feel scary since you had just had a heart attack. 

Jeff Holden: Well, yeah, because you're thinking, ' they're causing it to happen.'

Anna: Right. 

Jeff Holden: But that's where they're getting all the measurements. And then they also do a dobutamine test, which , accelerates the heart as if it's under stress. And they want to see what's happening as it's compressing the artery with a rapid beat. What that looks like in flow ratings. So now they know how severe.

Jeff Holden: and in my case was 98 percent

Anna: 98 percent 

Jeff Holden: So basically, no blood. 

Anna: How did you not pass out? 

Jeff Holden: It doesn't last that long. However, when you're on the street, not under, , guidance and testing, that's exactly what happens. And that's how people die. They go into that particular situation, where you go into a ventricular tachycardia, which is a rapid heartbeat, a real rapid heartbeat, on the ventricle side, which is so rapid, at some point it just goes into fibrillation, and nothing flows. It's not uncommon when you're in tachycardia, and then it just goes into a flutter, and then nothing happens, and then you do pass out, And if somebody doesn't get to you, that's the paddles.

Jeff Holden: That's where they shock [00:11:00] you back. If they don't get to you soon enough, people die. 

HTHA Message: “Heart to Heart with Anna” is a presentation of Hearts Unite the Globe and is part of the HUG Podcast Network. Hearts Unite the Globe is a nonprofit organization devoted to providing resources to the congenital heart defect community to uplift, empower and enrich the lives of community members. If you would like access to free resources pertaining to the CHD community, please visit our website at www.congenitalheartdefects.com for information about CHD, the hospitals that treat children with CHD, summer camps for CHD survivors, and much, much more.

2024 BHP Promo: Embark on a heartwarming odyssey with Baby Hearts Press, your gateway to uplifting stories for the C H D community. Introducing “The Heart of a Heart Warrior” book series, inspiring those born with heart defects and their loved ones. Discover “The Heart of a Mother,” “The Heart of a Father,” and “My Brother Needs an Operation.” Books celebrating strength, love, and familial support. Visit babyheartspress.com and be part of our loving community—uplifting hearts one story at a time.

Segment 2

 [00:12:00] 

Anna: Before the break, we learned that you had a heart attack. And then they pushed you to have the sensation that scared you. 

Jeff Holden: The test. The provocative test. 

Anna: The provocative test. What a name for a test.

Jeff Holden: Right. Well, it's provoking. 

Anna: It definitely was provoking. And it provoked you. 

Jeff Holden: And this test is not for the faint of heart doctor. I mean, somebody's got to know what they're doing because if they don't catch it right, There have been situations where they've tried to do it externally and people passed away.

Jeff Holden: So they don't do that any longer, obviously. 

Anna: Well, thank goodness. 

Jeff Holden: Because they can't get the nitroglycerin in fast enough to cease the condition that they're creating. 

Anna: So they gave you the provocative test and said, "Oh my goodness. [00:13:00] Yes. What you're feeling, we can quantify it. We can see that it's happening." Did they do surgery immediately after that?

Jeff Holden: No, unfortunately you have to be scheduled. They have to map everything out digitally, which is what they do. They ensure all the latest guided technology to make sure to know exactly where the artery is that's compressed underneath the heart tissue. And then what the surgery is, they actually just go in and cut the muscle tissue for the artery.

Jeff Holden: It's called 'an unroofing procedure.' 

Anna: Right, , I remember Boots, so any of you who heard the episode with Boots Knighton, she talked about that too, and I just felt myself cringing at the thought of literally cutting on the heart. Don't worry about the scar tissue and what that might do?

Anna: No, there Is none because 

Jeff Holden: it flays open like a piece of meat. 

Anna: Wow. 

Jeff Holden: It just flays open and then it exposes the artery. 

Anna: Sure. 

Jeff Holden: And now the artery is no longer getting the compression every heartbeat. 

Anna: Right. 

Jeff Holden: In manyy cases, they literally instantly plumps right up and it's [00:14:00] happy again.

Jeff Holden: It doesn't always end in endothelial dysfunction because those cells have been damaged. And in many cases, it could take up to two years for people to heal. And in some cases, it would never be 100%, but they would be far better than they were prior to surgery, 

Anna: I can imagine 65 years of living with this condition, your body has grown accustomed to it... 

Jeff Holden: Right

Anna: and it's not a spring chicken anymore. . , we aren't as rubbery when we're in our sixties as we are when we're in our teens or in our twenties. So I can imagine the body saying, "I don't know,, this is the way I've always been" , so what can I do if it doesn't resume the way that it's supposed to? 

Jeff Holden: It's just a matter of time. Not everything has endothelial dysfunction. Somebody who's younger doesn't even have that artery compressed as long. 

Anna: Right, right. 

Jeff Holden: And some people even in their 70s, they don't have endothelial dysfunction because of the closure of the artery, so they have the radial [00:15:00] pain, they have shortness of breath.

Jeff Holden: I never had any. I just had searing sensation ... blood loss to the nerve. 

Anna: This whole experience of having your coronary arteries actually embedded in your heart just blows my mind. And I remember when Boots was telling me about it, I thought, 'How could she have been so athletic and not know?' Likewise with you, but the thing that concerns me with your story, is that you started to have this constriction even when you weren't exerting yourself.

Jeff Holden: Right. 

Anna: Now, why did that happen? 

Jeff Holden: Just conditional. Once that artery gives up, it's done... it'll spasm. 

Anna: So, is that a clear sign of the decline of... 

Jeff Holden: Absolutely. 

Anna: Okay, okay. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah, once you are symptomatic, it deteriorates. It can't get better. There's no way to make it improve unless you mechanically do something to alter the flow.. 

Anna: Okay, so the other thing I was wondering is, [00:16:00] I know that my daughter had a coarctation of her aorta, and when she had her open heart surgery, the surgeon actually went in and cut out the kink and then rejoined the artery so that there wasn't that kink anymore because apparently if you just do a balloon, There's a chance that you could have that coarctation again. So he took care of the fact that that wasn't going to happen. You had this compressed area of your coronary arteries, but it's not as big as the aorta.

Anna: Did they talk about possibly cutting it and joining it so that it wasn't compressed? Because I would imagine that the endothelial compression only happened where it was embedded in the heart. It wouldn't be along the entire coronary artery. 

Jeff Holden: That's correct. At the point of entry into the heart is where it gets damaged, obviously, because it's getting compressed. Like a garden hose... 

Anna: Sure. 

Jeff Holden: You just keep stepping on it. Eventually, it doesn't expand as fast and doesn't do what it's supposed to do with the water. Some people do have actually kinks in their coronary arteries, and they do say for those people that it's possible that [00:17:00] once we release it, while it's gonna flow, it could go back to the shape and we might have to do something at a later point, but fortunately mine is straight.

Anna: Okay. And they didn't feel the need to, , put a stent in there ... 

Jeff Holden: For anybody that's listening, do not, if you have this condition and somebody says, "We'll stent the bridge to open it up." Never, never, never! The stents can't hold up to the compression of the heart. It beats the stent up and then the stent collapses... 

Anna: And then that's compressed and then that becomes a blockage. 

Jeff Holden: Then you're in trouble. Yeah. 

Anna: Wow. 

Jeff Holden: Then you're in trouble because you can't fix that. Doctors will look at that and say, "Oh, we can fix that, we're just gonna use the stent." Well, the heart's stronger than the stent.

Anna: Absolutely. 

Jeff Holden: It will break it down over time. 

Anna: You have to get that compressed artery out. Yeah, it has to be out, or it'll be beat up by the heart. Wow. Okay. So how did you finally find a doctor who said, "Yes, this is really going on. Yes, we are going to release that artery so that you can have a normal life [00:18:00] again?"

Jeff Holden: The condition is oftenn misdiagnosed or treated as benign, which is a big problem because so many people have it. The estimate is about 1 in 4 people have the condition. Not everybody is symptomatic. It's our contention, and the reason we do the podcast, is that you you may only have one symptom. It's a heart attack. And it looks like a coronary blockage and they died. Well, they don't do an autopsy...

Anna: And to be fair, you may have some coronary blockage by the time you're in your 60s anyway. 

Jeff Holden: Yes. And 100 percent of the cases where the artery enters the heart, 100%, the coronary artery, is narrowed either from just compression and or plaque buildup because the plaque backwashes every time the heart squeezes and of course the flow slows right where it enters the heart so it's easy for plaque to prosper like an eddy in a river leaving sediment. 

Anna: And then with a compression too any plaque that happens to be in there, it's [00:19:00] going to compress down and continue to grow, and then it'll attract more, right, it'll attract more plaque.

Jeff Holden: Exactly. 

Anna: Wow, that's really scary. That's really, really scary. 

Jeff Holden: And that's why it may look like you've just had an L. A. D., a widowmaker heart attack. It was clogged. Well, maybe. But if one in four of us have this condition, the odds are pretty good that many of those are caused by a bridge.

Jeff Holden: But we'll never know that until we start diagnosing it properly and looking for the cause of death. 

Anna: Because most people don't have an autopsy. 

Jeff Holden: Don't have it. 

Anna: Wow. Okay, so, you found a surgeon. 

Jeff Holden: The surgeon happened to be Stanford. 

Anna: Okay. 

Jeff Holden: I live in California. I live in Central California, a couple hours from Stanford. Stanford has a program ... it started about 12 years ago today, treating myocardial bridges. Once they realized this thing was a condition, that's where they realized we could do research on this and identifying the fact that this is actually causing [00:20:00] problems and we could fix this with this particular solution.

Jeff Holden: They're the world leader in myocardial bridge treatment. 

Anna: So they haven't been doing this for very long then, have they? 

Jeff Holden: No, when I went in, they only used one surgeon for it. His name is Dr. Jeff Boyden, the number one guy in the world with particular surgery, . 

Anna: He just happened to be in Stanford, which just happens to be near where you live?

Jeff Holden: Am I blessed and lucky or what? 

Anna: I would say all of the above. 

Anna: And at the time that he was going in to do my surgery, I was about 200 over 10 years. So he was doing about 20 a year.

Anna: Wow. Unbelievable, but then they discovered you had another condition. 

Jeff Holden: I want to touch on that quickly. Pectus excavatum, which is a depression of your sternum.

Jeff Holden: In many cases, they treat it early if it's a condition that is ugly on the chest. Well, mine didn't look that bad. 

Anna: You're really skinny. 

Jeff Holden: I had a little dent in my chest. I never knew it was anything. 

Anna: Maybe if you had been a much bigger person, it would have been more obvious. But you're... You're very, very [00:21:00] thin. 

Jeff Holden: So. I'm like, "What is this thing?" Well, what was happening is my sternum, when it was formed, was deeper, and it was also compressing the left ventricle of the heart. So they look at my heart, and they said, "Well, your right side of your heart's much bigger." Until they realized, it's not. One side's compressed, the right side. That's not a good thing.

Anna: Your heart's compressing your coronary artery; your sternum's compressing your heart. None of this is good. We've got to release all of it. It's really working too hard and under a lot of pressure. 

Jeff Holden: Right, so what they do is they go in and they literally, do the sternotomy, they open you up. When they're done with that, they close the sternum in the middle and then they cut the ribs away from the sternum, put a bar in there to hold it all up, and then you heal. 

Anna: Sounds really painful. 

Jeff Holden: Not a whole lot of stuff. 

Anna: No! 

Jeff Holden: And the bar stays in there for a year. 

Anna: Wow. 

Jeff Holden: And then they take it out a year later. The take out is easy, just slide it behind us. But, nonetheless, they had to fix that too. So they took care of all of it at the same time.

Anna: There's no point releasing the coronary artery

Anna: if you're still going to have your sternum pressing [00:22:00] on your heart anyway. So it does make sense to go ahead and get it. 

Jeff Holden: I got a two-fer. 

Anna: You got a two-fer. And probably lots of cardiac rehab after that. But weren't you the ideal patient? I mean, here you had been training for the triathlons, the bike rides, and you knew how to work out.

Jeff Holden: I did, and I had deteriorated because I couldn't ride, run, walk. I couldn't do anything. Fortunately for me, I was in good shape. And that makes a big difference. , I didn't do cardiac rehab. No, they said, "Just go home and do what you do.

Jeff Holden: We want you to walk a lot. Do this, monitor everything." And my big thing is, "When can I get back on the bike?" 

Anna: Right. 

Jeff Holden: "Give it about t 10 or 12 weeks." 

Anna: Well, yeah, because what if you were on a bike and you had a problem? I'm sure they wanted to make sure whenever you did exercise, you exercised with somebody, right?

Anna: Yes. 

Anna: Okay. And especially on a bike ride. You don't want to be out in the Sierra on a bike ride, when you are just recovering from heart surgery. 

Jeff Holden: The heart seemed fine. Everything was going well, I remember the first ride was on the trainer , just to [00:23:00] make sure the heart was good.

Jeff Holden: Everything was fine there. I put in two miles, . I've been riding a hundred, it came back quickly, but what if I fall and I'm gonna ruin it? Look at all this work, I still have a bar in me. 

Anna: Yes, doing it on a stationary bike was a smart idea to get started. And that probably helped build your confidence. 

Jeff Holden: Happily. I am absolutely 100 percent I'm back to doing everything I did. I did that ride on the Sierras two years later, I did it last year. Literally everything is back

. [00:24:00] 

HUG Disclaimer: This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The opinions expressed in the podcast are not those of Hearts Unite the Globe, but of the Hosts and Guests and are intended to spark discussion about issues pertaining to congenital heart disease or bereavement.

HTHA Rejoiner: You are listening to “Heart to Heart with Anna.” If you have a question or comment that you would like addressed on our show, please send an email to Anna Jaworski at Anna@HearttoHeartwithAnna.com. That's Anna@HearttoHeartwithAnna.com. Now back to “Heart to Heart with Anna.” 

Segment 3

Anna: So, Jeff, reflecting on your journey, how has your experience impacted your outlook on life and your daily habits? 

Jeff Holden: Significantly. . A different perspective. We're happy to be here. We're just happy to be here.

Anna: Absolutely. I think when you face death like you did, I mean, literally you're in an ambulance. You had to be thinking, 'Oh, my goodness, this could be the end.' You knew something was wrong with your heart by that point. But were you going to survive this? It had to be scary, so you're on bonus time. 

Jeff Holden: Agreed. I think every day is. We alll know we don't know when, 

Anna: We're kind of all on bonus time, aren't we? 

Jeff Holden: Right? It's when you get the recognition of this is really extra bonus. This is a wake [00:25:00] up call and there's a reason for all this. Everybody has their faith whatever it may be.

Anna: And you're a brave human, doing so much for others. And one of the ways that you're doing so much for others, not just in the nonprofit space, but also in the myocardial bridging space, is with your podcast. So tell us about Imperfect Heart.

Jeff Holden: Imperfect Heart was born out of this condition, obviously. When I was in the hospital when I was about to be released. And I told my wife, . I have a podcast studio. I produce podcasts with people. If there was ever a wake up call, that said, "Hey dude, you have to communicate this.

Jeff Holden: Your fear gives us the bonus time. We're going to give you this break to do something. You've got to do something with it; something to benefit all the people."

Anna: You knew that soon?

Anna: While you were in the hospital? 

Jeff Holden: Yes. 

Anna: You knew. 

Jeff Holden: Yep. 

Anna: This was in your mind. Okay. 

Jeff Holden: I told the doctor, "Do me a favor. would you be one of my first guests?" And he said, [00:26:00] "Absolutely." Now, it took me a year to get to where I knew what I was going to do with it and how I was going to do it. And once I started getting it all fabricated and I had what it was going to look like, my anniversary date is January 4th and we'll launch the podcast on January 4th.

Anna: Oh, that's so perfect. We'll share it. 

Jeff Holden: We started recording in 2022. 

Anna: Okay, so... you're in the hospital, you're thinking, 'Okay, there's a reason this has happened. I need to be the person to help provide information to the world. Because one in four people has this and may not even know that they have this until it's too late.

Anna: We don't want that. We want to start identifying sooner. , people like you were asymptomatic for such a long, long time.' So what is the goal with the podcast? 

Jeff Holden: Twofold. We want to help people who have the condition understand that they're not alone, that they're not crazy. Especially women who get dismissed so often.

Jeff Holden: And it's so, so [00:27:00] wrong. And we see it time and time again.

Anna: We see it in the congenital heart space as well. Well, this is congenital. 

Jeff Holden: Yes. 

Anna: But we see it for other congenital heart conditions as well. It's happening way too much. 

Jeff Holden: Yeah. 

Anna: It's too easy an excuse. 

Jeff Holden: So it's the benefit of people with the condition. We interview people who have been surgically repaired.

Jeff Holden: We interview people in the process of trying to get diagnosed. Sharing doctors where to go across the country, across the world now. We talk to doctors in India, doctors , in Europe. So people know that there's somebody they can speak with. And then the other part of it, the two fold part, is to change base cardiology.

Jeff Holden: understanding that this condition not benign. And I will tell you, people are dying from it every single day because they're not diagnosed properly. If you are experiencing radial chest pain, nobody can figure out what it is. It seems really odd, you don't have any blockage. Go down this path. And [00:28:00] you could clearly identify that it's something else. But more often than not 

Anna: it's 

Jeff Holden: caused by a bridge that's what it is.

Anna: So if you have chest pain, especially if you're a woman.... You have chest pain, they've said it's anxiety. You know it's not anxiety. You take the anxiety pills; it doesn't help. You still don't feel well... can you go to your cardiologist and say, :"What about a CT scan?" Can you do that? 

Jeff Holden: Yes. 

Anna: Can you do that as a patient? 

Jeff Holden: Yes, yeah, and demand it. Because, whatever they're doing isn't working. 

Anna: Right. 

Jeff Holden: Rather than spend years on tests that aren't gonna work, let's go the other way. Let's start with the CT. And let's identify it. . Let's make sure it's not this.

Jeff Holden: And if it is, don't accept benign as an answer. 

Anna: Right. Especially if it's getting worse. Is this something that you see newer cardiologists coming out of school are more aware of? We need to get this in the schools.

Anna: We need to get this in the medical schools so that the future cardiologists coming out, are aware of this are ready to [00:29:00] diagnose it properly and treat it properly. 

Jeff Holden: Yes, the difference between the younger cardiologists and the older... the younger have been aware of it coming out, but they're much more accepting of new information.

Jeff Holden: Whereas an older cardiologist, many of them, are like, "I don't know, , it's nothing."

Anna: It just breaks my heart. 

Jeff Holden: Right. 

Anna: So, what's the number one piece of information you want people to take away from this episode today?

Jeff Holden: If you have symptoms, if you have chest pain, don't deny it, which is easy to do because we all want to be fine, we think we're fine. 

Anna: Well, especially if you're fit and healthy, and that was a problem with Boots Knighton as well.

Jeff Holden: Many of the people I speak with on the show, they got marathoners They also have the same situation. Just, don't deny it. 

Anna: Don't push through.. 

Jeff Holden: Yes, yes. Somebody look at you right away. The sooner is better than later. And then, if you do get dismissed, find somebody else [00:30:00] that's gonna find a solution.

Anna: Okay, is there a website? Is there an organization that can help people? 

Jeff Holden: There is, Anna. There's a Myocardial Bridge Facebook Group. We all talk about who the doctors are. Sadly, I say that with a little bit of optimism too. There's just not that many, but what's great is over the course of the several years that I've been in there, we're now seeing more and more 'cuz people will find somebody in Florida that did it, or somebody in Philadelphia that did it, or somebody in Atlanta and they have now the capability to do it robotically.. 

Anna: We know that the more people do it, the more facility they get when doing it, the better the results will be. And if we start getting some professional literature talking about this and debunking the idea that it is a benign condition. 

Jeff Holden: That's correct. 

Anna: Oh my gosh, Jeff!. Thank you so much for coming on the program today.. I feel like I've learned so much! 

Jeff Holden: This is wonderful. And I hope we do turn some people on to the fact that they have this condition.

Jeff Holden: [00:31:00] And if they do, I hope they let you know. 

Anna: I hope so too. Thanks again, Jeff. I appreciate it. Friends, that does conclude this episode of Heart to Heart with Anna. Thanks for listening here at Podcast Movement. This has been so much fun. Thanks again to We're Rolling Studio for letting us record this episode.

Anna: This year has been great. If you have a great idea for an episode, please reach out to me on the Heart to Heart with Anna Facebook page. And remember, my friends, you are not alone. 

Conclusion: Thank you again for joining us this week. We hope you have become inspired and empowered to become and advocate for the congenital heart community. “Heart to Heart with Anna,” with your host Anna Jaworski cna be heard at any time, wherever you get your podcasts. A new episode is released every Tuesday from noon Eastern Time.